Information given by individuals to others as gossip

Because it is gossip it must not be considered to be the absolute truth until it is checked in some way. This must not be taken as an insult to anyone as none is intended. There are no evil people involved in the subject whatever and everyone has taken large amounts of time and effort in carrying out what they feel is the best

However, what seems the best for the farmer may not seem the best for the consumer and what is best for the politician to keep the populus calm may not be the whole of the information that the populus feels should have been given. (a lot of farmers are, however, very honest and I would not pretend that it applied to all).

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Go to the definitions page
Go to the gossip before July 1996, often still significant
Go to the gossip between July 1996 and November 1996, often still significant
Go to the gossip between November 1996 and May 1997
Go to the gossip between November 1997 and February 1998
Go to the gossip after February 1998
Dont forget to go to the news gossip sections

(but this is now fairly out of date)

N.B. This section is in reverse order so that the most recent gossip is at the top of the page


October 1997

The Medicine Control Agency has ordered the withdrawal of plasma from donors developing nvCJD.
Now this is a disaster for the report from the DofH only two weeks ago in that it indicates that the MCA (based at the DofH) feels that we should presume a risk to be involved. Apparently the MCA were ordered by the Committee on Proprietary Medical Products (the CPMP, which is a Europe-based organisation) and the decisions at that committee were based all over Europe. What it cannot get around is the admission that we cannot know how many of the donors are incubating the disease and that we must assume their blood to represent a risk. All very difficult in that the DofH is doing its best to maintain the use of blood in the UK and the media may take this up to show to the population that the blood they are being given cannot be looked on as safe. The possibility that all UK blood and blood products may be banned from export in the same way as beef was brought up. The fact that we export little may not get around the media hype that would be expected to follow.
A lot of media noise is going around concerning the blood transfusion problems.
Exactly why I am not sure in that the Department of Health handled it really very well.
Harash Narang is going to be publishing a second book soon.
Further details to follow
Prionics antibody to be announced.
The antibody that is active against PrPsc but not PrPc, a monoclonal from Bruno Oesch et al in Switzerland it to be announced but it is not clear where or when at the moment. Try http://www.prionics.ch/address.htm or html (it has not been working recently).
Charities may open nvCJD branch.
A major organisor for the collection of funds for BSE victims and research may be organised in the S of England soon. At the moment the politics are being worked out.
Worry in the treasury over inquiry
The main reason why a judicial inquiry may not take place is being suggested as being the cost (as below). Information is coming through that farmers may be made responsible for the damage caused by their produce, should it be outside the standards set by the EU. Apparently this is being discussed in the EU and it was actually brought up because of BSE. The inquiry would probably decide that the responsibility for the cattle being fed infective material was due to the UK Government and, should the farmers be accused as being the cause of any cases of nvCJD then the cost may fall on the UK Government. This actually seem extremely unlikely in that it is almost impossible to show which beefburger caused anyone to develop the disease. What may result, however is that the EU bypasses the 'proof of fault' that would be required and simply says that nvCJD cases in general are the responsibility of the UK. All very complex legality gossip but not something that will keep the treasury happy.
Still no news of how the MAFF are going to deal with the huge overload of material for incineration and with judicial inquiry
The worry is that there will be no judicial inquiry into BSE simply because it would find out things that would cost the current government too much money. Initially people felt that the costs may have been because the relatives of CJD victims would sue the Government using the inquiry details. Now, however, it appears that the problem may actually be the cost of repaying farmers for their losses. No news about the inquiry 4 days after it was expected to have been discussed by cabinet.
Department of Health crushes the press over CJD in blood.
The Department found out about the Watchdog program in advance and put out its own press conference to show that the risk from blood transfusion was minimal. This left the BBC with nothing to say and the press was not watching. In fact the problem will return again and again but the DofH breaths its sigh of relief that the blood transfusion service is not stopped.
Within the last 15 years, there has been a serious outbreak of scrapie in New Mexico amongst the wild Rocky Mountain Bighorn sheep.
The thing about scrapie is that it didn't really go around in epidemics but rather as endemics that came and went but generally not very much. The fact that this is an epidemic is strange, as if there is a further factor in volved (like the scrapie epidemic in Norway currently underway). this small herd was very nearly decimated, and they are near extinction. they captured as many as they could, kept them at the Rio Grande Zoo in Albuquerque, and then they were released.
Department of Health has blood transfusion press conference.
This may have been an error in that yet again they (and the people from the National Blood Authority) used the main argument as being 'there is no proof that CJD is transferred to humans by blood transfusion'. The journalists saw straight through this one as being very similar to 'there is no proof that beef represents a risk' that came from MAFF for many years. All it meant was that MAFF had not got the ability to find out and it was too early to know if humans eating beef developed disease. Similarly the journalists were not impressed by the DofH and simply realised that 'no proof' really meant 'no experiments done yet'. They were saying that the DofH really must not do this sort of thing because the MAFF credibility was ruined by BSE and taking the 'everything's all right' stance when really we dont know is not the clever way to procede. Journalists are a crafty bunch and the DofH does not seem to be treating them as such.
Stan Prusiner gets the Nobel Prize for Science.
This appears to have hit the US press already and is heading for the UK press tomorrow (6.10.97). The problem with this one is that there was (and is in some areas) so much interpersonal eye scratching going on among the various researchers that it may turn out to be quite easy for the press to find people in Berlin, Yale and Edinburgh that are not all that pleased.
Blood transfusion risks meetings.
The big problem with this one is that there is no way of working out the size of the risk involved but, as the result might be so serious, a number of groups appear to want to make meetings to discuss it.

September 1997

Call for end to red meat promotions.
This comes from the Vegetarian Society and follows the indication in the BMJ that red meat is associated with bowel cancer in people eating large amounts. They also say that the BSE risk was unacceptable and that there are many other diseases that are decreased in vegetarians (heart attacks for instance).
Harash Narang takes the Public Health Laboratory Service to Court.
A writ is to be handed in to the high court tomorrow (Thursday 25th September) accusing the PHLS of malicious activity against him. (There seems to be a chance that he may actually win this one in that the PHLS were simply told by higher government not to carry out any work on BSE and Harash Narang did carry out work but in a manner that was apparently accepable to the directions he was given personally. He lost his job for an obscure reason at the time. The problem for the PHLS (who seem to be in the middle of this one) is that Harash managed to get hold of large amounts of official documents apparently indicating that they wanted to get rid of him for his work on TSEs and not for the reason put forward by them at the time. Scientists in the field would really wish that all this was finished off but too much officialdom is involved and too much personal pride. What the court hearings would almost certainly mean is that much of the information that would be demanded by a judicial inquiry may actually be demanded by the high court anyway. The main reason that many people in MAFF dont want a judicial inquiry is simply that they have a lot of other work to do; the court hearing may mean that they have to carry out the work even if the inquiry does not take place - Ed).
Tension rising over judicial inquiry.
It appears that various people high up in the UK Government have made it clear that they want to have an inquiry and to get on with it soon. The reason seems to be that this would be the time to get the most political capital out of it and to be able to interview many people still working for MAFF that seem to have been involved with the hiding of information early in the epidemic. Jack Cunningham said that the decision as to whether to go ahead with the inquiry lies with members of the cabinet and not just with him. The people at MAFF and CVL would probably rather just get on with dealing with the desease than work on information for an inquiry.
Meeting in France.
For some reason only a relatively small number of researchers are being accepted for the Phillip Laudat meeting in France in November. Again it is really quite odd in that some well known scientists are being turned down...but officials of Governments are being accepted.
New information about US nvCJD case.
Apparently the case referred to by the media may well have been a case at the University of South Florida, a patient of doctors (I have been asked not to give thier names) who was clinically diagnosed as having CJD and the Miami Herald picked it up as a case of possible nvCJD. The information going around suggests that the patient did not have a post mortem and was a 51yr old man. Maybe there are two cases (as has been suggested elsewhere) but the publication of the case is required in the scientific press and expected to be in the NEJM.
Judicial Inquiry.
David Bode, the man that has carried out a lot of the legal activities on behalf of the CJD families, helped organise it but it turned out that the letter to be published in the New Statesman did not fit all of the potential signatures perfectly: in fact the number of people that wanted the inquiry was really very large amongst the scientific community but most of the people in the field could not sign because of the Official Secrets Act. It seems that they did very well to get the signatures that they did in the time available (about 3 days).
Judicial Inquiry.
I am told that some of the people asked to sign in the scientific field actually said they would write directly to the minister asking for the same thing. Whether this will make a difference is unclear but it has not happened before. The worry has been that Labour have organised inquiries into many other things since being in office but not BSE, a subject that sticks out glaringly as requiring one. Apparently MAFF is sticking its heels in and doing its best to stop the inquiry taking place (possibly because it has quite enough work to do stopping BSE).
Case of nvCJD in USA.
I am told that the case was in Florida but taken outside florida for PM. That it is in a 52 yr old woman (gossip from BBC). No confirmation has come from the US TSE scientists but also no denial from the US at all. The worry is that the BBC are in fact digging up a case of CJD and claiming that it is nvCJD because that is what they are being told by the author. However, claims have been made that it is to be published in the NEJM soon.
nv-CJD Families change to 'human BSE' name.
The lady in charge, Lisa Harvey has made it quite clear that they simply do not want to use the name nvCJD any more and that it should not be referred to as 'human BSE'. There will be little that can annoy Whitehall more than this.
Judicial inquiry demand.
This time the demand has come from the scientific groups that were involved with BSE from the beginning and the researchers that were involved with human risk analysis. It has come through the article in the New Statesman and is to be presented to the Government in the second week of September. What they say behind the scenes is that the results of any judicial enquiry would take so long that they would come out just before the next general election and would be politically severe for the Tory government under Mr. Major. The aim seems to be mainly to make sure that this sort of problem does not happen again.

August 1997

Environmental Agency looks on the bright side.
It now seems that the calculations used by the EA to calculate the risks from contaminated material in the environment getting into water and soil were really quite optimistic. The figures were put forward when used to justify the spreading of partially filtered material from an abattoir onto the land. They took the level of infection needed to infect a human to be really very high and the amount of infection in bovine tissue to be about 1000 times too low i.e. they did not seem to have taken into account the factor that MAFF figures for infectivity in tissues were measured by inoculation into mice and are now known to be between 1000 and 10,000 times to low.
Loss of UK credibility in Europe: other departments point at MAFF.
Apparently, the action last summer by the UK Government to prevent EC work, was seen as grossly ignorant by the other members and they have, as a result looked on all of the functions of the UK Government as being not fully credible. The Department of Health is particularly fed up in that it was kept out from BSE activity, BSE research, BSE public health assessment etc and now it is having to repolish its tarnished image in Europe. The new article 129 (actually originally from Maastricht), which gives the EC the right to impose directives and to give money to induce better health care was a direct result of the BSE crisis in that it takes food safety from the agriculture department of the EC and gives it to the health department.
Prionics, a company may have a specific test for TSE.
Simply by accident a monoclonal antibody appeared which could identify the prion protein in its abnormal form and yet steer clear of the normal form of it. Bruno Oesch in Switzerland came up with this and started up the company to sell the antibody, initially to research institutions. Hopefully it will work, but monoclonals have a relatively low affinity for the antigen. Prionics have a web site but I cannot currently get through to it. Have a go at http://www.prionics.ch/address.htm or html This has not worked for me I might say.
Delfia, arrive with BSE test.
It appears that the researcher for Delfia, a finnish research company that sells time resolved fluorimetry machines, managed to produce a relatively sensitive test for the prion protein in a few weeks. This cannot look good with MAFF having been supposedly working on it for 7 years.
Major researcher at Central Veterinary Laboratory quits.
For some reason one of the major workers on BSE has got fed up and left. This follows a previous quit by Ian McGill, major researcher into BSE in the early 1990s and the sacking of Mike Richards in 1997, statistician that would have given MAFF all the bad news about humans eating infected cattle.
The difficulty in deciding what to do with the MBM is still here.
MAFF and the Dept of Industry are still wondering what to do and gossip says that no decisions have been arrived at while the silos appear to be becoming full of the material.
Possible cases of nv-CJD were users of insulin before 1987.
Two cases so far have appeared and have died recently. PMs are on the way presumably.
Farmers seem to want to make it difficult for the food group.
One food group that was accused of having accused british beef inaccurately by having placards in Paris warning the locals about the risks from british beef was accused by the NFU in the press. The NFU has never been known to keep its mouth shut when it did not know enough about the subject and so the food group asked for damages in the courts...but the NFU are demanding that a lot of money is put up front by the food group with the court and this may stop any legal action.
Organohalogen: fluoroacetemide released on soil.
It is still unclear as to the source of BSE and the OP argument continues. The information on the release of 2 tonnes of the substance onto soil and the removal of the topsoil by the MAFF at the Midox chemical factory in Smarden (Kent) has been suggested as a cause of the original production of BSE.
Thruxted Mill critics begin to understand the science.
The problem with Truxted mill near Ashford was always that the fluid from the mill was put into the ground in a run-off and some of the material in the water remained on the surface. There was an official meeting looking into this and everyone was told that the Environmental Agency had decided the risks were minimal. The critics have now apparently looked into the reasons given and realised that some of them are not really valid. "It has always been a BSE phenomenon of assuming the audience to be ignorant and you can tell them anything. It now seems that certain scientific fragments were misleading and deliberately so".
Skating on thin ice.
It has now come through that MAFF realised in 1995/6 that it was taking a major risk with BSE and that if it turned out to be a risk to humans then it could lead to a major catastrophe. As explained by another person: if the ice is thin, you do not skate on it and it may have been realised by political circles that the risks taken should not have been.
BSE infected sheep.
It now seems that when the experiments were carried out concerning the transfer of BSE between species and the same glycoform of PrP being produced, they also looked at the PrP of new cases of scrapie in sheep. It found to be the same and hence BSE was transferred to sheep. What was not available was the data as to where the sheep case was derived. It was not clear, for instance, that the case of BSE in sheep was in fact a wild case of clinical scrapie. However, the response of the UK Government, banning all sheep brain and spinal cord from the human diet might suggest that the experiment had indicated BSE to be present in the ovine population in the UK.
Incinerators are having a difficult time.
The gas burning incinerators that were being designed to get rid of the MBM are not being agreed quickly by the local authorities and the local people, who seem totally bent on stopping them. The original one at Wem in Shropshire has got no further and another one has been planned on the other side of the town. The one at Acre in Shropshire seems to have gone ahead quite easily and is now burning material. Staffordshire Local Council is quite determined not to have any of the incinerators on its land and other councils may actually have taken the same route.
The storage of MBM is getting tight.
The MAFF seems to be handing out excess amounts of money to people that are willing to set up MBM storage facilities. The reason is simply that the current facilities are virtually packed to the eyeballs. One of them on the South Coast is actually damaged and it seems that they cannot put any more in or taken any out for fear that the building will collapse. What did not seem to be realised by the storage people was that the MBM did not usually have any lifetime and the damp conditions in the UK at the moment along with the high temperatures have led to bacterial fermentation of the material. They are apparently now getting too hot. The reports of rats associated with the storage of MBM has not worried anyone yet but this has not been looked into to any great degree. Stories of maverick silo builders are rife. One was about a man with plenty of money that was driving around simply asking anyone with a silo of any kind if he could buy it and put MBM in it.
One new incinerator group say they can heat the MBM up to very high temperatures.
The actual method is not at all clear but seems to get to the temperature needed to destroy any possible infectivity. The main advantage seems to be that the equipment can probably be on the sites of the rendering companies and so the MBM need not go through a lot of transport procedures.
Fifth case of BSE in Germany.
The main thing about this case is that it is not at all clear that the animal was imported from the UK. Official attempts are being made to suggest this but it appears to be the offspring of a local dam and there is not that much evidence that it was even fed infected meal...could it be the dam that was actually infected?
Powerstations to be bought by Government.
Cunningham said that they might do this to incincerate MBM. The gossip says that the government were asked to pay such a large indeminity in advance to Powergen or National Power that it was simply not worth their while. The problem has always been that when dealing with MBM there might be a risk to the worker...but of course when putting the MBM in the silos or the military sites the workers were not wearing anything to protect them. When, however the MBM arrived at Nat Power they would meet workers wearing breathing gear! There was obviously going to be arguments. If, however the same people ran the incinerators as ran the silos there wouldn't be a problem.
McDonalds will be taking UK beef but....
of course it will not be able to get any beef from old cheap cattle in the UK! Nor will Burger King. The question that is being put around at the moment is whether imports will just continue as previously.
Disastrous ABPI meeting.
The drug companies made it clear that they really were not interested in the research needed into methods of treatment for nvCJD. The reason was apparently that they thought that there were simply not enough cases that needed treatment. The only thing they offered was some reasearch if it was involved with Alzheimer's disease. The researchers at the meeting left looking fairly depressed.
Erlichman returns.
The Guardian research journalist that produced the articles about BSE that were shocking for the previous Government is now back but with Channel 4...and producing a program about BSE.
EU funding for research into BSE is poor
. The great problems that have appeared concerning the EU funding have been that there really are not many places in the continent that can carry out the pure research that are required. The requests for funding have to be in by the end of July but it looks to be a difficult thing.
Researchers admit that they were told not to tell anyone about their results.
It is now becoming clear that much of the research that took place into BSE was deliberately kept quiet and the researchers involved are actually having a difficult time in understanding that hiding information is no longer necessary.
The new Food Standards Agency may contain much of MAFF.
When researchers look at the layout of the FSA they realise that much of it will contain the same staff as MAFF and the worry is that MAFF spent a lot of its time telling its staff to keep everything totally silent. It will probably be difficult in getting them to realise that the FSA is to be organised in the same way as the Environment Agency i.e. 'transparent' at all forms. In other words 'nothing' should be kept hidden. Quite a change but the worry is that the staff will not know how to do it.
The Environment Agency's initial report.
This has looked at the various methods of disposing of BSE infected or rendered material and says that none of them really show any obvious risk. The question is as to who advised the EA and various groups are wondering if it all came from MAFF. The one thing that stuck out was that the rendering plant in Kent that spread its wash-down water onto local land (and this was given the OK by EA at the local meeting), should actually stop doing this and certain parts of this water should be injected deep into the land rather than spread on the surface.

July 1997

More suggestions are appearing that the USA may refuse UK blood donors and blood products.
This would really not be surprising in that the regulations introduced in the USA against the potential of CJD infected blood are quite harsh. Exactly what they are thinking of doing is not clear but a meeting with the specific group at the Center for Disease Control in Atlanta suggested that people that had been eating UK beef might be seen as a risk although the exact level of that risk cannot currently be said.
It appears that pressure is appearing to change the status of rendered material so that it does not need to be incinerated.
The official reason is probably because we are running out of sites to store it, and that there are simply not enough incineration sites in the UK working with which to carry out the incineration. What is probably more important is that the amount of money that it costs to incinerate only some and burn the rest will be less, and the changes in the payment made to the renderers have started to fall as of March 1997. It seems to be the renderers that are pushing for the changes in regulations (which would allow them to burn the material on site with very few regulations concerning BSE), and it is MAFF that decides whether they are allowed to do it. It already seems that many local authorities are unhappy with incinerators being produced on their sites and not giving permission for their building. The incinerators are being labelled as 'mobile' by the applicants, which would decrease the ability of the local authorities to do this, but still things are too tight. It seems that the permission being given yesterday by the Environmental Agency for power station incineration of rendered products may turn out to be irrelevant if the renderers get their way.
Cunningham says that we will not import beef from places that do not carry out the same abattoir regulations.
This is simply due to the worry that we may be importing cattle that have been infected with BSE (or even sheep). This seems really quite reasonable in that the Labour Government have admitted that the risk is there. The question remains as to why SEAC were so determined that sheep might actually have BSE. The gossip collumn says that they were told from the Norwegian outbreak of scrapie that really it wasn't scrapie but BSE and that they now have some evidence for that.
Environmental Agency is to police the incinerators of bovine bodies.
This is quite surprising in that MAFF has always liked to police things that affect it. However the EA from Leeds (Roger Hyde, Regional General Manager, Rivers House, 21 Park Sq S, Leeds LS1 2QG, but Mr Snoddy is on 01642 633753, Environment Agency direct line 01642 853415, Swan House,Merchants Wharf,Westpoint Road,Thornaby,Cleveland TS17 6BP.) is to make sure that all the incinerators in the country are up to standard. They are making sure that 850C in the presence of oxygen is the final burn that will destroy the agent (and this does sound reasonable despite the results reported in the Observer). Message from Chris Clayton: The inspector surprisingly came out with incredulous disagreement with Govt policy (on the basis of the advice they receive) because the blood from the carcasses is to be poured onto agricultural land and not destroyed...this seemed to the inspector to be incredibly lax.....but he was powerless as this is the remit of the scientific advisors to HMG.

June 1997

Oprah Winfrey is to be sued by the beef lobby.
Oprah is a big person on the TV talk shows in california. She stated that she had given up eating beef because she was worried about its safety. They want to sue her for the effect she had. I hear that the same thing could be true elsewhere in that other people have stated their worry about the safety of US beef and they also may be sued.
Environment Agency has to make a final decision on the go ahead for the Rufforth incinerator near York in July
and that the planning committees decision to grant this planning permission is not the last word after all. Contact Chriss Clayton: http://freespace.virgin.net/chris.clayton/homepage.htm

May 1997

The Norwegian Broadcasting news service (Text TV) May 21th.
: Animal Health Institute in Edinburgh has conformed that the 11 year old norwegian dog died of a prion disease similar to BSE. This is the first confirmed case in the world, but they rule out the possibility that the dog is infected through pet food.

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